Feeding the Hungry Spirits

Bernie Glassman began his Zen studies in 1967. Being concerned with issues of social action and the integration of Zen practice with everyday life, Roshi Bernie founded the Greyston Mandala. He talks with us about his spiritual and interfaith journey as well as his Peacemaker Community work.

Integral Yoga Magazine: Please tell us about your spiritual journey.

Bernie Glassman: I actually consider myself both Buddhist and Jewish. They were parallel paths. For a period, I was more Jewish. For a period, I was more Buddhist. Then, I was pretty much both. I also started to do some studies in other traditions. I took a mantra in the Ramakrishna tradition. I took a name in the Sufi tradition. I spent time in Catholic monasteries.

IYM: Was this your own personal exploration?

BG: It was less about seeking and more about feeling drawn toward the different traditions. But, I was rooted in Zen.

IYM: What about your practices? Were you integrating practices from the different traditions, as well, with your Zen practices?

BG: My formal practice was really Zen. Whenever I do a street retreat in New York, I always end up going to a mosque for one of the days.

IYM: You were named a Dharma Successor of Maezumi Roshi?

BG: I was ordained in the Japanese Soto sect of Zen. They used the word, "Roshi," for somebody who has remained a teacher and who is over a certain age. My teacher had 12 Dharma Successors. I was the first.

IYM: You are very involved with peacemaking and engaged spirituality. How did that come about?

BG: I had a major experience around 1976 in which I felt the sufferings of what I call "the hungry spirits," of all the sufferings of the world. It was so strong that I made a vow that I would try to feed all those hungry spirits. It led me to ask, "How do you work?" As a Zen teacher, I was working with individuals who were interested in Zen practice to help them realize the oneness of life. My question became, "How do I create situations, environments, such that all people would move closer to realizing the interconnectedness of life, the oneness of life?"

IYM: Can you talk about that development and the establishment of Greyston?

BG: Greyston was an experiment in putting the mandala of Buddhism into society. I translate mandala as "circle of light." In Buddhist theory, a mandala consists of five energies. I defined the five energies for the Greyston mandala to be: 1) livelihood or ratna; 2) social action or karma; 3) study and training or vajra energy; 4) spirituality or Buddha energy; and 5) relationship and integration, or padma energy.

I had studied theories of mandala and of energy. But I hadn't seen it actually used as a model in society. That's what Greyston was about. In Yogaville, you have the businesses, the livelihoods, the trainings, and you have spiritual practice. You can say that there is a mandala right here and you can look at the pieces that fit into that mandala.

I was trying to take that and put it into the city of Yonkers, by bringing a holistic approach to inner-city work. In fact, that is what we did. Our bakery grew in a way where the bakery wanted to separate out from the rest of the mandala because it was becoming so successful. That was a crisis in the development of Greyston. I had to end the crisis by firing the person in charge. He was extremely successful in helping that bakery become very strong, but he would have destroyed the model.

I was always asking how one creates an environment in which people who had been homeless or unemployed, or on drugs would step in and become part of our life. It wasn't that we were imposing Buddhism or Zen. I was trying to encourage them to get more involved in their own spiritual tradition, whatever it was. But I was also looking at techniques to help them see this interconnectedness of life...